tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8820814198873126054.post3165999528231056948..comments2023-10-20T05:51:51.625-04:00Comments on The THINK 3 INSTITUTE: The "Cloward-Piven Strategy" StrategySamuel Wilsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00934870299522899944noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8820814198873126054.post-54537193826704918172010-04-06T22:42:18.419-04:002010-04-06T22:42:18.419-04:00d., I'm aware that Charles Murray of Bell Curv...d., I'm aware that Charles Murray of <i>Bell Curve</i> fame, not exactly a man of the left, has advocated something like a guaranteed national income, so the idea clearly has life beyond the left. But conspiracists of the right are drawn to Cloward-Piven because the authors actually do write like conspirators, to an extent.<br /><br />Crhymethinc, one of the first and ultimate questions facing any society is when, if ever, it's proper for some people to be subordinated to others. That's at the heart of the question of sharing the fruits of collective labor. Some people believe that buying the subordination of others with wages for a certain period of the week is fair, on the assumption that employees would have no other means to provide for themselves without being offered work by entrepreneurs. Other people believe that the moment you need anyone else to realize a project, you have to make everyone involved an equal partner in it. Are these the only options? That aside, you do well to bring borrowing into the picture, since the entrepreneur and the capitalist aren't always the same person, and their conflicts of interest make capitalism an inherently volatile system.Samuel Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00934870299522899944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8820814198873126054.post-72053701861893514522010-04-05T23:39:14.494-04:002010-04-05T23:39:14.494-04:00You might first want to answer the question:
Exact...You might first want to answer the question:<br />Exactly how did the superwealthy get their wealth? Most of them certainly didn't earn it working a job. Yeah, I know a lot of right-wingers always use the example of a person investing all their money into a business venture deserves all the profit, regardless of who ultimately does the work. But if we were to change the perspective a bit...that same man has no capital to start his business so he gets a loan from a bank. The bank has <i>invested</i> in that man's business. By the right-wing argument, the bank deserves to continually profit from that man's business, even after the loan is paid off. The logic fails in the long run. The bottom line is that everyone involved in the process of creating a marketable product contributes to the profitability of the company making the product. They INVEST the hours of their lives. Therefore, they deserve a share of the profit. Once that basic premise is understood bo be universally true, there will be much less demand for a "redistribution" of wealth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8820814198873126054.post-89922696049679964732010-04-05T19:17:07.864-04:002010-04-05T19:17:07.864-04:00I've had at least one commenter at Poli-Tea br...I've had at least one commenter at Poli-Tea bring up the "Cloward-Piven Strategy" as reason to support Republicans to defeat the evil Democrats. That person attributed what were, to my mind, obvious effects and side-effects of globalization (movement of jobs abroad, loss of manufacturing base etc) to the success of the CPS. <br /><br /><br />You note that perhaps C&P were naive in their radicalism, but in another sense, one could argue that their radicalism was actually quite limited in scope. They called for "guaranteed income for the poor," but I've been coming across more and more references to calls for "universal welfare" for the last year or two. The idea is espoused my many theorists, I most recently came across it in an article on <a href="http://www.sfreporter.com/stories/born_poor/5339/all/" rel="nofollow">Samuel Bowles and the Santa Fe School of Economics</a>, an interesting read if you haven't seen it already.d.erishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09186054212519025557noreply@blogger.com